There is more subtlety in the world than just black and white my friend, and the world is a more beautiful place for it.

oh yeah, and this:

Ian Jackson is at it again.

It doesn't add to the conversation and there's no need for it.

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http://www.xenu.net/archive/baloney_detection.html

I see it differently, and so do the BSDs which will continue to evolve new generations of init system designs which the various cross-platform daemons will remain compatible with. If you are talking about GNOME's desktop notification daemons, they are perfectly expendable in the long run. Users choosing not to use systemd will likely not feel much loss at losing the likes of PulseAudio, NetworkManager, and D-Bus too. udev could be annoying, but it's not like we haven't replaced that before in the past and so couldn't do it again.

As the resolution and others have said, even with systemd as the default init, allowing it to position itself as a non-modular single supplier not able to be replaced is a much bigger problem than its run-time deficiencies.

> but there's zero trolling in there.

specificially, I found this way over the top,

Is this vote an attempt to delay the inevitable?

and this

as second-class citizen, with many developpers choosing not to bother supporting anything that's not systemd?

the first is begging the question and a sophomoric rhetorical clichi©, the second continues the fait accompli with rampant speculation and overall comes across as mainly designed to provoke a reactionary response by pressing people's buttons (thus the trolling).

I welcome the discussion and it's healthy to have it, but let's maintain some respectful decorum. Especially here, as one of the biggest complaints about Pottering is that he continually steers these discussions away from the technical and towards the emotional using (pretty lame) manipulative rhetorical tricks.

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http://www.xenu.net/archive/baloney_detection.html

Oh and story submitters, lets keep the trolling and editorializing to a minimum, eh?

To be honest I really wouldn't be sad if d-bus went away. It suffers many of the same design and philosophy clash problems that systemd does and more often than not is a major pain in the neck for sysadmins of serious workstations and servers. Creating files in /home which even root can't access? Are they nuts? I can actually put a number on the lost productivity-hours these Pottering creations have caused us and we're not an especially large outfit. NetworkManager, d-bus, systemd may be a fine solution for a personal laptop install of Fedora or Ubuntu, but that's about as far as it goes. And that's not Debian's target audience.

I could do without another systemd shouting-match...

Much better that we have our shouting matches now than the Debian project self-destructs later.

You're doing a great job here.